Transcript Ep #189: Getting Paid To Speak: The Importance of Valuing Your Expertise With Lindsay Rogers

Heather Sager  1:45

Hey, friend. Welcome back to another episode. I’m so thrilled you’re here. It is the month of March, which is very special because it is officially my birthday month. It is my birthday month. And yes, I’m one of those very annoying people who celebrates their birthday all month, but I feel like I need to make a few caveats here.

I say that I celebrate my birthday all month long and my husband jokes all the time of, oh my gosh, it’s birthday month but I am not like crazy aggressive. And it’s not, actually, it’s something that I say. It’s not as much as something I do and even if I were to do it, there’s nothing wrong with that. But full disclaimer, one of the big reasons why I celebrate my birthday, we’re gonna get a little deep here very, very quickly into the episode.

 At the time of this episode airing it has been 21 years and one day since I last, well, I guess since my mom last took her breath on this earth. Yeah, we’re going a little dark and deep today. If you follow me on social or on my email list, you know, this is something that I talk about openly about my mom lost her battle with cancer, a few days before my 18th birthday, and in fact, I laugh about it now, but my, I was the youngest of six kids, so I was the young one in the house and my family was looking at days of the week not dates, and her funeral almost got planned on my 18th birthday, so that’s fun. Luckily somebody did a little date check and that didn’t happen.

But as you can imagine, having your mom fighting cancer and then ultimately losing that fight just a few days before your birthday kind of puts a little bit of a rainy, dark cloud on your birthday, and if you’ve ever lost someone that you’ve loved, you know that as that anniversary comes around every year, it’s hard.

So since I turned 18 and every year after I make a big fricking deal of my birthday because what other choice is there? You deal with hard things that the only choice you have is to move forward and bring light with it, and the month of March is also at my mom’s birthday month. Her birthday would’ve been, well, is March 30th.

So it’s always thinking like, my birthday, her birthday, we always were birthday twins when I was a kid but, it’s when I celebrate and make this big deal out of my fricking birthday, it’s because I am bringing lightness to the dark. So I feel like a little context there because I think it’s one of those things that we, ah, life sometimes it’s really easy to think about all like the woohoo, fun stuff that’s happening, but life also has some very deep, painful pieces and I think the tendency when you have a personal brand online is to hide those pieces and only talk about the bright sunshine, especially if you’re trying to position yourself as an authority.

There is this idea that we have to come across just strong and I don’t know, whatever way, like there’s a way that you think that you might have to be, but I’ve found that sharing different facets of your story really, it reaches people in different ways. That’s why a couple weeks ago, I talk about public failure. It’s why I make fun of myself all the time. It’s why I talk about hard things like having a hearing loss or losing my mom really young, and I make a big fricking deal of my birthday, and I celebrate launching new programs, and I’m my biggest cheerleader, and I’m also the most open, real and raw around what happens in life and in business.

Part of me sharing, I get this with you, is one to make some small chitchat banter before today’s awesome interview, but two, just to remind you that it’s okay to be in two realities at the same time. If you’re going through something hard and you’re celebrating something big, or if you’re feeling both simultaneously nervous and excited and just having two opposing feelings or two opposing experiences at one, that is to be human, my friend, and that’s a very real thing.

So telling you a little bit of that and a little bit of my story is actually perfect for today’s guest.  We have on today my friend that Lindsay Yaw rogers, and she is the CEO and founder of Raw Strategy, and she works with Olympic athletes on building their brand story and storytelling. She works with big brands.

 I don’t know if I’m allowed to say who the brands are, so I won’t, but some big freaking deals. I’ve known Lindsay for quite a few years.  She’s been through my program and she’s also hired me to work one-on-one to help her with some of her speaking and I wanna give you a taste around what’s possible with speaking when you do consulting and high ticket work.

Last week you had a really great example with Liz Wilcox, sharing how she’s spoken on more than 200 stages and on podcasts, sharing her story to build her $9 membership. Holy  crap! Was that not an inspiring interview or what? So freaking good, and this week I want to showcase for you is if you do higher ticket consulting or coaching, or maybe you work with organizations or would like to at a broader scale, Lindsay’s gonna be a really great story to show you what’s possible through paid speaking.

Now, the difference between last week and this week is all the Lindsay’s speaking opportunities have been paid and at this 0.1 year ago, she had never been paid to speak, and you’ll find out very soon that because of speaking, she’s been paid very, very well in a very short amount of time and she’s now branded herself as a speaker.

So without further ado, I want to pass it over to my extremely, ah, inspiring interview with Lindsay.

*****

Heather Sager  3:54  

Alright, Lindsay, welcome officially back to the show. I’m so so honored that you’re here today. 

Lindsay Rogers  3:59  

Thank you for having me. 

Heather Sager  4:01  

Yeah, welcome back. This is actually officially Lindsay’s third appearance on the show. Y’all, you’re gonna love her episode around storytelling. If you’re a new listener on the show, go back and listen to that. I’ll link it in the show notes. But I also had Lindsay on for a bonus episode where I interviewed her and a couple other speakers on Instagram and I put that recording so you might be familiar with Lindsay story. But my goodness, what you have done with speaking in a very short amount of time, it’s just, it’s been inspiring for me and I wanted people to hear it and just talk about the impact that speaking can have in your business, in your life and really what that could look like. So why don’t we start by talking about Lindsay, what is your business and how do you help people? 

Lindsay Rogers  4:37  

Yeah, sure. So my business is called Raw Strategy and I have three different programs that I run people through and generally speaking, I work with primarily athletes, leaders within a corporate structure and then entrepreneurs on using storytelling and messaging strategies to position them for growth. So for athletes, also little bit more around how do you create a really powerful, impactful story so you can connect to sponsors and potential partners. And then for leaders, it’s a little bit different, where we are trying to craft really strong and powerful messages so that teams follow them and that they start to kind of elevate their perception in the marketplace to attract clients, etc. So it’s awesome. I do a lot of one on one work, I do a lot of workshops and group work so I love it. It’s really fun. 

Heather Sager  5:29  

It’s cool. And you work with some really amazing people too, especially with like personal brands. When you think about athletes, helping someone take like their inner, the story of like, why they do the thing that they do and put that into life like it is so freakin. It’s magical. It is very magical. Okay, I am curious. Let’s call this out for a moment. Someone who tells stories for a living, you teach people to tell their stories. What really was it that made you raise your hand of going, I need somebody to help me tell my story? 

Lindsay Rogers  5:57  

It is such a good question. Well, I think there’s sort of that thing of the cobblers kids have no shoes. You do this so much for other people and yet, or I do it so much for other people and yet, when it comes to me, I get so focused on the details that I share with other people that I can’t get away from it. I can’t get away from the details so sometimes it’s helpful to have someone else to bounce things off of. And also, I think there was this a little bit for me, and you know, this, but I was, it was a little bit of like, ready, ready fire aim for me where I kind of like jumped into the fire thinking, yeah, I can do this, like I want to have, you know, speaking as part of my business, and then as soon as I got asked to speak, it was like, Oh, God, I don’t know what to do. I don’t know, she just my body was like brain. I don’t really know what my message is on a stage compared to in marketing materials because those are two very different things, and they’re two very different things when you write them versus speaking them. 

And so I’m I come from a journalism background, I was a journalist, freelance writer, editor, all the things and so I have a tendency to be a little verbose on writing, and so I learned really quickly working with you that the written version is very different than the out loud, say it in front of people version. But I didn’t really know how to pull those two apart and tease them apart and really get clear on okay, what’s the clean, concise, kind of impactful version using your voice and how do you use your voice? How do you use your body? Like, I didn’t know any of that stuff. I know the written side so that’s why I came crying to you. 

Heather Sager  7:34  

Yeah. You raised your hand. Now, here’s what’s fascinating. So last week, I shared the story with Liz who was using speaking proactively to create leads in our business and to generate our audience. For you, your speaking was really around speaking on stages as a paid revenue source and that first speaking gig you mentioned around like, oh, my gosh, what am I doing? That was a paid speaking opportunity, right? 

Lindsay Rogers  7:56  

Every single one I’ve done has been paid. I’ve never spoken for free and I originally, so the way that happened is, and I tell this to people because I think it’s sort of important. When you start having a lot of success, like with clients, let’s say, and you start to see this transformation, what happens is that they want you in different parts of their life, right? So I started getting asked by clients, companies, to come speak at different events. So it was, you know, Team USA speaking, you know, with them in DC. It was, you know, this big insurance company bringing me all over the country, etc, etc. So, I have never done a speaking engagement and not gotten paid. 

And to be totally honest, I shot for the stars at the beginning and just said, I’m gonna put a high mark on this and just see if they say no, and not one of them has said no. And so I say that because if you value what you do and you’re getting some sort of transformation for people, like one on one or a small group, when you get on stage, consider that, like that, you’re doing that for people in that environment also, so don’t be shy to ask for what you’re worth so that’s my experience. 

Heather Sager  9:08  

I love that you said this. I recently said in one of the workshops, I did the Five Figure Speaker workshop, it’s one of my my private trainings. I talk about how you get paid to the level of the problems you solve. Now, one of the things that you’ve done really, really well is your goal from the get go was I want to get paid to speak. Now, you whether or not you’d have that opportunity on your plate, you knew that that was a revenue model you want in your business, and we’ll talk about the impact of that here in a moment. But I think this is a very real thing a lot of people think like it’s either I have to like speak for free to earn the right to get paid or I have to just do a ton of free of speaking and get paid somehow on the back end and there really are so many different business models that you can leverage speaking for. 

So I just love seeing this example because so many people have the goal of I do want to get paid to speak and you don’t have to wait for someone to like bestow you upon this like Medal of Honor that you’re now qualified to speak. Although we highly encourage you work with speaking coach, because that helps. But that is, like that was a goal that you had and you made it happen. So let’s talk about that initial process, you raise your hand and said, alright, I have this speaking event about I want to get my ish together in this talk. Let’s talk about that initial process. So we started working together inside a group program. Full disclaimer, I’ve also worked with Lindsay one on one since on her talk and she’s really elevated into the paid speaking category. But let’s go back to the beginning there. What did you notice at the beginning? Was it easier or harder or what was that experience, like getting the ideas out of your head not in the written form, but out of your freaking mouth? 

Lindsay Rogers  10:43  

Oh, girl, oh, girl, it was I had to completely dismantle myself from the inside out, where it felt like a deep therapy session where it was there were so many nerves that came up, there are so many questions around, is this what I should be saying? Is this meaningful? What, do I even deserve to be on this stage, like all these internal things came rushing to the surface that kind of sidelined my ability to actually do it, like I was questioning

Heather Sager  11:13  

We need to address this piece here is that was a new thing for you because you’re very confident and very competent in your expertise. So the fact that those things came in, I remember us talking about this, you were like, this is something that happens to other people. It doesn’t happen to me, right? So let’s talk about that piece, like that hit you out of left field, right? 

Lindsay Rogers  11:32  

Completely out of left field, and I, you know, I’m a coveted person, I’m an athlete, I, you know, set goals, I cheat them like that, that is kind of who I think I am. And then when, and I’ve heard that people say their fear of like, through I think there’s research been done, has been done when people say their fear of public speaking is greater than their fear of death. 

And I think I hit that point where I was like, Oh, my gosh, this feels like I am exposing the deepest, darkest, darkest parts of me. I’ve never felt this exposed in my life and I’m a confident person, one on one, and in my group coaching programs and all that, but when I’m on a stage with people who A, I’ve either never met or even worse, people I know really well, that’s worse, by the way, that’s even harder. 

Heather Sager  12:20  

I agree. 

Lindsay Rogers  12:21  

I felt like there was something that came up for me that I just didn’t anticipate and I didn’t know was part of me. So it’s something that I actually had to face. I mean, I was there, I talked to a therapist about it. I talked to you about it. I talked to our group about it and I realized I was really not alone, like this is a thing that people they strive for but as soon as you’re in that hot seat, it feels like sheer terror. So yeah, that was that was my reality. 

Heather Sager  12:48  

It is. And you know what I’ve learned talking with clients, you mentioned, a very experienced process, a joke that a lot of my private clients say it’s like, Heather, it’s like, you’re my communication therapist which we laugh about and we love therapy. I am not a therapist, by any means, or like trying to compare it. But there is this thing that comes out when you have an opportunity in front of you. It’s almost like this, like, oh, my gosh, I’m here. 

And what I see so often, especially with people who have really established brands, really established expertise, it’s almost like speaking on stage, it’s even riskier, because it’s, you know, what you do is so good but now it’s so public, it creates this gap of like, but what if I don’t sound as intelligent as I know I am? What if I like, what if it doesn’t come out right, or they think I’m an idiot, or God forbid, they find out that I don’t know what I’m doing but I do know what I’m doing but it doesn’t feel like I know what I’m doing? Like there’s this weird, like, all those things, those were coming up for you too. 

Lindsay Rogers  13:42  

Yeah, and I think that the thing for me is that you don’t have a crutch, like if you’re if you’re like speaking with a client on Zoom or you’ve got notes somewhere, you have a lot of crutches you can pause, you can take breaths, you can listen to them for a little while but when you’re on a stage, all of those crutches go away. You don’t have like a set, or I don’t like to use like a set of notes in front of me so I don’t think you kind of coach people against that too. 

You kind of have to bare you’re a little bit bare, you’re a little bit naked up there and so I think you have to get comfortable trusting yourself. And what I found was so helpful for me is, and I this is part of your process, but also like I went rogue, too. But I would take, I would write literally my entire talk out every single word and I walk around my neighborhood for two, three hours and I would just say the entire thing and I’d be staring at the notes. 

And then I would do the second version, where I would take that and I would like parse it down to, I don’t know two pages of notes and then I would take that and I, it would just be slides. And so I would have to go through this process where I started to actually trust myself and trust that I knew this stuff like I, but what happens I think when you get on stages you lose that trust in yourself.

Lindsay Rogers  15:00  

You lose that like that when the crutches get taken away, that trust gets taken away in yourself. So I think for me, that was a big thing I needed to get over. And I, for some people, there’s a process there. For some people, it’s time. But I think you do a really good job of, you know, getting people to actually speak it because that was the other crutch for me. It’s just when I read things, I feel like, relaxed and confident. And when I just say them and trust myself that I know it, I can get nervous so I think for different people, there’s different.

Heather Sager  15:34  

There absolutely is, by the way, you didn’t go rogue, you actually did exactly what you need to do. I think what a lot of people do, and this is what I noticed with other other speaking programs, or other programs, in general, people like rest on, here’s the way I did it so this is the best way. And I’m a big fan of and this is could also be a hot button just to warn anyone who’s thinking about joining my program or learning from me is I’m a stickler that says, I’m going to give you some examples but also I’m going to make you think critically and figure this out for yourself. I’ll give you the container to do it safely but you have to learn how to trust yourself and learn how to communicate your expertise in your own way. 

And part of that process, what you just talked about, I call this the script-ish process. There’s actually three different ways that people get that out of their head and become confident in that leap. So some of it is to start with scripting, some of it is reverse scripting, some of it is like fully bullet point. But there are three different types of people that prep, you went through the script backwards process, which is very, very normal and a lot of people need that, especially people who feel empowered by written word. 

Other people, for me, for example, I go through that process just to write it out but then I have to throw it away because it gives me anxiety because my perfectionism comes in that if I don’t say it the way I wrote it, it’s wrong and then I like malfunction. So you have to figure out your style and I help people do that. But it’s that leap between the okay, I have the plan and then the actual stages there. That’s pretty scary. So what helped you make that leap? Even though it was scary, right, you know, you had to go there. What was it whether about the talk or about the process that helped you bridge that gap? 

Lindsay Rogers  17:13  

A couple things, I think in particular, one is that I had to simplify, because what I had to realize is that the people that I’m speaking in front of don’t know what I’m talking about. And so, I would I have a tendency, as I said, to kind of be verbose and complicated. And so I really have to work hard at being really clear and really simple and also taking breath in time because I want to fit it all in and I know this is common too. So I try to fit so much in that it complicates the message. 

And so for me, I think one of the things I have to back out of and one of the problems with writing the full script is you can like really complicate things. So when you speak it out, when I spoke it out, and I went in our private one on one sessions, you would stop me and say, okay, what are you trying to say here? So, it would force me to kind of undo the complications and really just get clear and simple. And I think like when you go through, like your bucketizing method and writing, I mean, I’ll turn my camera around if you want, but I still have I go through this process of I’ve got, I’ve used like zillions of post-it notes at this time, but at this point for so many different things but it really helps me get it out, move it around. 

Sometimes I quite literally, like put it on the ground and like walk my talk through those pieces of paper. So I’ll be like, okay, I’m right here, I’m starting and I’m physically going to take a step into the next thing I’m going to say and it kind of makes me get in my body a little bit more. So I think that was the other thing is that you can you can spend so much time in your brain overcomplicating the process. Am I talking about the right thing that goes next? 

And what did help me is physically walking and talking out loud, but physically moving from one stage to the next one laid out on my floor. And then I would like move the piece where I was like, I can’t take that step right now. So the physicality of it was a shock to the system for me and the more I moved, the better I felt. I don’t even know if I’m answer your question at this point. 

Heather Sager  19:29  

This is I will, first of all let’s I’m gonna unpack a couple things that you just said. So the bucketizing process that Lindsay is talking about is the, it sounds super fancy. It does not sound fancy but essentially it’s this idea that we have. We all suffer from this. This curse of knowledge where we’re so close to our information, it’s hard for us to uncomplicate it, to simplify it, but that’s what’s required for other people to follow it. So in a similar way around how Marie Kondo teaches you how to simplify your home. Sidenote to call out recently she was quoted as saying, she’s given up that simplification because now she has three kids and she can’t keep her house tidy. 

Lindsay Rogers  20:05  

See? Now I like her like more.

Heather Sager  20:06  

For all parents were like, okay, thank you for the relatable factor. Finally, 

Lindsay Rogers  20:11  

Finally, I like you.

Heather Sager  20:12  

Yeah, we Marie Kondo, your brain, your ideas and the question isn’t, does this spark joy? The question is, does this add value to your core message? And that’s what we do, which, by the way, at the time of this recording, we are now live in my Becoming The Know Authority, free training happening. I’ll talk a little bit about that in there. So if you want to learn more about this bucketizing process and the simplification, be sure that you’re in for that free training that’s in the show notes. 

Heather Sager  20:38  

But you talked about that but I also love, I didn’t know you were gonna go here. I love that you brought up the idea of the physicality. This has been instrumental in my training and I’m so glad that you picked up on this is the physically walking your space and putting yourself in your content. It sounds very, very weird. 

For some reason, what’s coming to mind for me is like the warped reality of Alice in Wonderland, you’re talking about us. But it’s this like, you have to put yourself in your content and think about it in different zones, in different sections and you train your brain to be able to then do that seamlessly on a stage like I love that you brought that up. I cannot speak like higher enough of this need to. If you’re going to be a speaker, you have to practice speaking and moving at the same time. So I love that you brought that up, that was very tangible.

Lindsay Rogers  21:28  

Well, and I think that there’s something, a long time ago, I listened to this guy he was, I think that he competed in the national memory competition, whatever it was, and he talked about this idea of when you need to remember something, you need to put it in a room. You need to physically walk into the room. 

So if you need to remember, you know, a lamp, a table, wallet, and whatever it is that you’re trying to remember in maybe you’re trying to remember 50 different things. He said he put it in a room and physically walked between the room so you can start to remember it and it came up for me when I keep looking at my floor because this is where it happened. But I I thought about that when I literally like physically walked to the next place. And so it can be a neat tool for people to say, okay, if I’m not remembering like the sections of my talk, I’m going to close my eyes and figure out what does that next room look like? How am I walking through a house and then each room I have a different topic or I’m moving to the next phase. 

So anyway, it’s that physicality is I completely agree with you. It’s It’s enormous and to embody kind of your talk because it is so physical like you are, your voice is like outside of you, right? Like your breathing is inside of you but your voice is actually outside of you. So to embody that kind of physicality of like, I’m going to move between rooms, I’m gonna move in phases of my talk, it can help and I think it can help calm the nerves a little bit so it feels like your feet cold.

Heather Sager  22:55  

Yeah, okay, that is so okay, that’s so freakin good. Let’s talk about content. So you inside our program, you created your signature talk and you have now used it multiple times. I do remember one specific scenario. Let’s see if you let me go here, where you tried to change your talk, you’re like, Oh, it’s a different group. I gotta change it. Let’s talk about that. So your signature talk that you created, just share a little bit about that and the kind of the creation process and how you have used that sense.

Lindsay Rogers  23:29  

Yeah. So in your program, I went through your process, obviously, and I kind of went rapid fire through it because I had such a short timeline. So which, by the way, is really helpful. I know, you have like a concentrated program coming up. And I would say hell yeah, that’s almost better because it forces you to finish. So that, I work very well and my back is up against a wall so I had a very short timeline. And I created something where it was for the immediate need was to create a signature talk for two different things, totally different audiences. 

And so I created those two things within your program. But then since then, I’ve been asked to speak at multiple different groups that are there’s some overlap, but not a ton. So what you’re talking about is when I came to you and said, Oh, my God, totally different group. I need to like scrap everything and you kind of looked at me and said, why? So why are you doing this to yourself? And, and I think it was a good lesson for me to again, I have a tendency to overcomplicate things. 

So it was a good reminder for me to say, Okay, what is universal about the talk that you’re giving? And it’s a good question for people to ask if they do have one that can can kind of transcend industries or transcend groups is, you know, what, what are the elements that do transcend? And then what are elements that you can manipulate to be really powerful for that group. So when you’re creating your signature talk, you sort of have those sections, right, where section one, maybe you change the intro story where it’s a little bit more relevant to that audience, the core is the same, and maybe you change the very end. So just being aware of like, what the flexible elements of your signature talk are and then what’s the core?

 And so I think I was really screwing that up at the beginning thinking the whole thing was flexible and you reminded me that no, no, the core thing can remain the same and what are the flexible elements? Let’s play with those. And then you helped me figure out, like, okay, close your eyes and you know, what are you feeling when you think of the time you’re most embarrassed? I think you actually asked me that question. But really pushing on brainstorming what the flexible elements can be depending on who you’re speaking to. 

So that was a big one for me because then I don’t have to reinvent the wheel over and over again and you can create this one asset that I mean, I think I’ve told you this, but as you know, it’s made me you know, almost $100,000 so far so it’s like it’s in a year. So I think I wasn’t thinking about that it would be that flexible, but it really can be.

Heather Sager  26:20  

Yeah, I love that you just said that. So quietly, like no, like, just very nonchalant. It’s maybe like $100,000 in the last year from one talk, right from one talk, like that is freaking incredible. It is friggin incredible. 

Most, just to give some I don’t remember the exact stat I saw a report from a another speaking organization that works professional speakers. But like the amount of public speakers that make over, I don’t know, 15, 20 grand a year is like most public speakers that are struggling trying to get started. They haven’t even got paid yet. 

So the idea that you were able to create a talk, yes, you had a paid speaking gig but then you use that talk to catapult yourself forward doing the speaking snowball with referrals, leveraging client relationships for more referrals. That’s huge, like, hope that you’re giving yourself some like, I’m freaking badass.

Lindsay Rogers  27:11  

Oh, well, you’re always, you know, when you achieve this thing that you think you could never do, I just moved the goalposts. I do, I need to look back. But I also, you know, going back to what you said at the very beginning, were really focusing your signature talk on like a deep pain that people have and giving them like a you know where they are now and then where they can be. 

That I think is ultimately why I was able to make money on these talks is because there’s like a mini transformation they experience right then and there and then there’s like takeaways later they can deal with but, but having that pain and really, really knowing what that is, I think is really, really important. 

Heather Sager  27:54  

And it’s, okay, I love that you brought this pain piece because instantly when I hear that, I know a lot of people are like, Oh, but I don’t want like, I don’t want to be like the negative person or I don’t, I want to bring the light, I want to help them I want to bring the joy. One of the things we talk about is balance. 

So in the opening of a signature talk, there is this tension that has to happen between pain and possibility and there isn’t an actual equation between how much you lean into both so that they work in tandem and so that you’re branding your message in a way that serves people, right?

You’re not just like that wa wa point out the pain. It’s actually, it’s about the possibility that it creates so I love that you brought it up. I also, this idea we talked about that flexibility of a talk. This I think is really important for people because I think a lot of people might be thinking like well signature talk, like do I have something that’s signature? Do I have something big enough to say like, am I worthy of this big kind of talk thing? 

But a signature is just kind of a starting point or what you want to be known for? It’s taking your experience and packaging it up. So I’m curious for you, did you have an intention of having a signature talk or where you were like, let me just get something started and then I’ll grow from it.

Lindsay Rogers  29:03  

B. It was very much, I just need this thing because I’m being asked to do this thing so I just need it, and then it sort of opened the possibility for me. I was like, Oh, dang, like I did that. I can’t believe I actually, I survived the first one and so it gave me this confidence of like, oh, maybe this is like an element of my business I can add because I don’t think before like going through this process with you. I didn’t have the confidence to even think that was a possibility. 

So I think that is, I think that was a big thing that you and the program gave me is just sheer confidence. And because I think when you’re going at it alone, it’s like, am I doing this right or like what section of my end or do I have a section or what’s a cadence or there’s no answers to that? So I think even having like that clarity kind of brings things down and also just gives you this sense of like, this is not just a one off experience. It can have, it can become a long term asset for you, in your business, and I just didn’t anticipate it being that powerful.

Heather Sager  30:16  

Yeah, what would you kind of on that note, what would you say was the most unexpected thing you gained from working on your speaking skills?

Lindsay Rogers  30:27  

I would say a couple different things. One is it connected me a little bit deeper to the reason I am in business because when I saw people in the audience raising their hands, and I tend to do a little bit of like, workshopping as in my talks, where I’ll ask people to come with a version of their story and then we’ll workshop in front of them. When I started to see people have this, like, they relaxed their shoulders, their eyes opened wide. They saw possibility and I think it really made me feel like, Oh, I’m doing the right thing, I’m on the right path. 

This is almost giving me more feedback that I really even knew I needed but it just, it made me clear on the why like, why I’m doing what I’m doing because you know, you get in your own head so much of your business and you’re figuring out Kajabi, your email service provider and writing things and sales pages and all the things and then to stand in front of people and have people react to you and your message and what you’re saying and these little transformations that people have just made me feel like okay, Linds, you’re like doing, you’re doing what you should be doing so I would say that was a little unexpected for me. 

Heather Sager  31:46  

Yeah, that’s like deep shit. 

Lindsay Rogers  31:51  

Yeah. It is. I’m not known for my lightheartedness.

Heather Sager  31:53  

Yeah, I love that though. It is, and when you talk about that workshopy thing, right? I love how you phrase that and I love that, right? Being able to do your magic with someone in front of a live audience like that it’s just incredible, and it really speaks to this idea that when you’re really good at what you do, when you’re focused on turning on a light bulb for the one person in front of you, or the group in front of you, and just serving the crap out of them in a way that’s going to be the most helpful, things work out. 

Like you become so desirable because I talked about this in my last week’s interview with Liz Wilcox. We talked about how a lot of people get this glint in their eye around speaking on stages, because they want to be popular, they want to be that name in that face. But the ones who actually do it are the ones who focus on the person in front of them and I think you have exemplified that so beautifully. Well, what advice would you give for anyone else who maybe has that glint but they have that heart of service? Where should they focus, like any advice or words of wisdom for them if they’re just getting started?

Lindsay Rogers  32:57  

Yeah, I mean, the thing that I think is, was informative for me is quite literally asking, like going through questions with people that you feel like you want to be serving and not being afraid to ask the not lightweight, fluffy questions, but like the deep questions of, you know, where do you want to go? What has worked? What are you afraid of like all of these things because that can sort of give you this sense of that kind of pain versus optimism and possibility piece. And I think the deeper you understand that, the more you can stand on stage and riff, the more you can have flexibility in your talk, because, you know, there’s a lot of these little, and when I say pain, I mean, you know, I’m not saying physically, you know, they’re actually in pain, but things that they want to have happen in their lives, they don’t have now so that can be a pain. 

But I think when people really deeply understand that is when you start to move from someone who’s like mildly interesting to someone who can have like a really profound impact on other people. And I often find, I don’t know if you have experienced this, but I find that you know what, when I was younger, for example, I was just about like getting the project, having the, you know, big name client on my website, and that felt like success. 

And, you know, I don’t know, a handful of years ago, 5, 6, 7 years ago, I started doing that shift to like, what do people actually want to experience like, what is the thing that I can get them that they want and they need, and again, if you can, if you can do that research and for me, it took literally two years like to really figure that out and put it into words in a program that people want to participate in, like give yourself some space to figure that out because that is the biggest, for me the number one thing that completely transformed my business and gave me the confidence to call you and create something that I’m like, you know, exposed on a stage cheering is understanding like what people want, they care about, what they fear, that’s the biggest piece for sure, and actually caring.

Heather Sager  35:08  

I love this so much. I’m getting chills and I have the shittiest grin on my face ever because what you just said is the whole focus of this free training that I have going on right now. It’s called Becoming The Known Authority, and the secret to becoming known is knowing who you serve. 

Lindsay Rogers  35:27  

Ooh, love it.

Heather Sager  35:28  

Like that is that you just explain that so beautifully. You didn’t even know it that was the theme because we’re recording this before that training comes out. But that is the thing is when if you want to become the known authority, but you’re so focused on do I sound smart? Do I like have something great? Is my story good enough? Like, all those things, which I know nobody is outwardly admitting that we’re thinking so much about ourselves, but we all are. 

But that secret to becoming that known authority is that what you talk about knowing your person and their problems and what they want, knowing that so well, it becomes second nature. That’s what this is really about and then having the competence to articulate it on the fly, both intentionally and reactive, like, oh, my gosh, put that in a big freaking bow, Lindsay, like, you nailed it.

Lindsay Rogers  36:15  

Yeah, I did it. Well, and I’m just gonna have one other tidbit to that because this is the other thing that I have not only experienced for me, but I also watch my clients do this is that they think they have to be like earth shattering, and what I always say to my clients and I have to give myself this speech soon. You probably gave me this speech too. 

It was that the more pedestrian it is, the more everyday it is, the more easily understandable and digestible from other people because they been through it and it feels really relatable, the more you’re going to be able to transform them into something new. So I would say don’t go too crazy and high level and you’re going to like wow, people to that extent because it’s going to become unrelatable. So make it pedestrian, make it something that is everyday that people experience on the regular.

Heather Sager  37:03  

Yeah, well, great example of that. We giggled over Marie Kondo, right? We both have like hallelujah around her having three kids now and being like, maybe we don’t have to be tidy all the time. It makes it more relatable and I think that’s what’s interesting, especially for those who are in the online marketing space, there are people in the space who who come across pretty perfect and while we’re like can appreciate them, what I find with most people that I serve is what they appreciate more is the people who keep it real, not real in like a super scrappy, unprofessional way but like real, they’re relatable, they’re relatable, and they’re polished, and I love what you said. 

In fact, anyone and this happens in every time I teach around with the program, everyone always comes thinking that they have to have this big, earth shattering idea or they have to be tackling this big grandiose, so like, change the world type of thing and y’all world change happens from one little tiny thing at a time. It’s this ripple effect that compounds. 

So what the first thing we do is we anchor your problem down to the ground so that it’s tangible. That’s what people want is they want tangible and inspirational and that’s exactly what a signature talk does. 

So I love, friggin love that you brought that up. Is there any other, when you think about just the ripple effect of you having a signature talk and adding speaking to your business, anything else that’s on your mind that you’d love to share?

Lindsay Rogers  38:17  

Yeah, I will say welcome opportunities that feel a little bit outside of where you had planned to go. So meaning, I started being asked to speak to groups that I never though that are in my vortex and it has surprised me in a way where I’m still learning about like new types of organizations or new areas of organizations or, like an HR group is really, you know, a big kind of target for me now and I never anticipated that. So if people are coming to you and saying, hey, this would be an interesting place to put your message like, would you be interested in sharing it with us? 

Don’t be afraid to adapt to those new places that you just did not plan on going, and obviously there’s there’s boundaries, you have to place your own boundaries but I’ve been really pleasantly surprised by new types of groups that are finding me just through referral and all that, that are so fascinating to me and so outside of the what I had planned for 2022 or 2023 and because of that I, it has opened up so many possibilities in my business and just a ton more revenue, like I’ve shared this with you privately but there’s just so many more opportunities have come up because I have been in front of a lot of different types of groups. 

And yeah, to welcome that with open arms, I think is it’s an exciting piece of having a talk being in front of people, showing that you are an authority even if it’s a tiny little niche like mine. If you’re an authority in that tiny little niche, people are going to come to you over and over and over again. So I guess that’s what I would share. It’s like it is ballooned my business in ways that I did not expect. 

Heather Sager  40:06  

I love that that advice of staying open. I think a lot of times people sometimes have their picture around what they either want their business look like or a specific speaking, they have a stage in mind, and hands down, the most common thing that I see is people come into mind going like, I don’t even know what stage I want to speak on. I don’t even know what’s available. 

So they put like Oprah, like, or some like very specific stage in mind and what I love seeing is when people’s eyes get open to just how many different opportunities are out there, and our pain opportunities and people seeking quality educators to come in and inspire their group. It’s just like a whole new world like you, you deserve to live in that world girl, I’m so freaking proud of you. You’re doing amazing things. 

And I, what’s the coolest part about what you do, but one of the many cool things is the fact that what you teach people to do is you share your stories and equip them to do the same so the sheer ripple effect that happens when you take the stage, well, it’s just it’s so so beautiful and you are changing the world from your corner of the internet and stage and I’m just so grateful for you and so excited for everyone who crosses your path.

Lindsay Rogers  41:15  

Oh, that’s awesome. Well, I will say to everyone listening, I would not be here without you from multiple ways. I mean, literally handing, holding my hand emotionally, holding my hand intellectually, holding my hand from a message standpoint and grounding me in what’s important. It was far more and I’ve said this to you before, it was far more than creating a signature talk. It was really kind of a big experience for me and so I, hats off to you, my dear and everything that you do is profound for other people. It is again, it changes people’s lives in ways far more than financial. 

Heather Sager  41:49  

Look at us, look at this big love fest on the podcast. Also just to clarify in case your all’s ear buds went out, she said intellectual not holding her hands sexual. I feel need to clarify in case zoom click that one. Lindsay, you’re amazing. 

As I mentioned before, y’all you should learn storytelling from Lindsey. You can go back to a throwback episode, which was in like 2020. So you can laugh because you’ll actually hear the difference in both of our voices in the span of two and a half years. You’ll hear me sound differently. You’ll hear Lindsay talk about what she does differently and that is growth at its finest so I actually love going back to throwback episodes. So learn more about storytelling specifically on that one. We’ll link it in the show notes. 

Lindsay, where’s the best place for people to stay connected with you and learn more about what you do?

Lindsay Rogers  42:33  

Yeah, so I would say my website kind of has everything. So it’s rawstrategy.net and there’s Yeah, dropdowns for all the programs, social, all that stuff is on there. So reach out if you have any questions and I’m here to help.

Heather Sager  42:47  

Yeah, Lindsay is great. She’s also on, I love following you on social because you actually catalog all of your speaking events and kind of take us back behind the scenes so be sure to connect with Lindsay a lot of love for today’s episode if it resonated with you. Thanks for being here Lindsay. Y’all, thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope this serve you well and we will see you next week. 

Lindsay Rogers  43:06  

All right. Thank you. 

Heather Sager  43:08  

You’re welcome.